Historical analogies for MAPs and allies: Difference between revisions
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{{Template:Lists}} | {{Template:Lists}}__NOTOC__There are numerous '''analogies with present day reality''' that may be of relevance to [[Minor Attracted People|MAPs]] and allies. Using these parallels considerately in a debate can be turned to your advantage. | ||
*'''[[Witch hunt]]ing.''' The literature, suspicion, and show trials surrounding witch hunts were all very similar to the process of obtaining legal closure for unlawful sex with minors. Guilt is assumed from the beginning, hearsay is enough to convict, and reasoned explanations are ignored. | *'''[[Witch hunt]]ing.''' The literature, suspicion, and show trials surrounding witch hunts were all very similar to the process of obtaining legal closure for unlawful sex with minors. Guilt is assumed from the beginning, hearsay is enough to convict, and reasoned explanations are ignored. | ||
*'''[[Homosexuality]].''' Both are seen as aberrant as opposed to adaptive, owing to an oversimplification of evolutionary theory and hangover from religious assumptions about wasteful indulgence. Both have been described as unnatural and treated with behavioral and aversion therapies. Crude experimental sciences such as [[Penile Plethysmography|phallometry]] are deployed, once the deviant has entered the criminal system. Both of these tendencies have at points been presented as predatory and corrupting, with little analysis of motives or objective reality. Homosexuality was first presented by scientists as gender "inversion", while [[pedophilia]] (defined as a [[paraphilia]] in the [[Moral panic|same era]] by German psychiatrists) is still often presented as [[Research: Offender characteristics|chronological inversion/regression]]. | *'''[[Homosexuality]].''' Both are seen as aberrant as opposed to adaptive, owing to an oversimplification of evolutionary theory and hangover from religious assumptions about wasteful indulgence. Both have been described as unnatural and treated with behavioral and aversion therapies. Crude experimental sciences such as [[Penile Plethysmography|phallometry]] are deployed, once the deviant has entered the criminal system. Both of these tendencies have at points been presented as predatory and corrupting, with little analysis of motives or objective reality. Homosexuality was first presented by scientists as gender "inversion", while [[pedophilia]] (defined as a [[paraphilia]] in the [[Moral panic|same era]] by German psychiatrists) is still often presented as [[Research: Offender characteristics|chronological inversion/regression]]. | ||
Be prepared to face accusations of "falsely equating" attraction to minors with homosexuality if you use the gay analogy, and use a [[Debate Guide: Pedophilia is unnatural|nativist]], [[Debate Guide: MAPs are invalid|counter-invalidation]], [[Debate Guide: Pedophiles chose their condition|counter-agency]] argument if required. | |||
*'''[[Masturbation|Onanism/Masturbation]].''' Masturbation dogma is similar to [[Child Sexual Abuse|CSA]], and indeed a predecessor - since masturbation was defined as self-abuse and led to shame and aversion in children. Both are [[Moral panic|moral hysterias]] that developed into scientific discourses. CSA, while it was preceded by ''white slavery'' and ''child molester'' panics in the Victorian and postwar eras respectively, was reified in the 1970s/80s by [[Moral enterprise|moral entrepreneur]]s and Feminist theory. Present academics have compared the previous pathologization of self-gratifying sexual behavior in children with conceptions of present day "sexualized" children who court "bad touch" - even seeking pleasure with other children or adults. | *'''[[Masturbation|Onanism/Masturbation]].''' Masturbation dogma is similar to [[Child Sexual Abuse|CSA]], and indeed a predecessor - since masturbation was defined as self-abuse and led to shame and aversion in children. Both are [[Moral panic|moral hysterias]] that developed into scientific discourses. CSA, while it was preceded by ''white slavery'' and ''child molester'' panics in the Victorian and postwar eras respectively, was reified in the 1970s/80s by [[Moral enterprise|moral entrepreneur]]s and Feminist theory. Present academics have compared the previous pathologization of self-gratifying sexual behavior in children with conceptions of present day "sexualized" children who court "bad touch" - even seeking pleasure with other children or adults. | ||
==MAPs and The Holocaust== | |||
: | |||
A '''[[Wikipedia:Holocaust|Holocaust]]''' comparison can be dismissed at this point, however [[Minor Attracted Person|MAPs]] and [[Allyn Walker|adjacent academics]] often live like pre-holocaust middle-class Jews in Germany - i.e. second-class citizens who must hide themselves or else face threats to their life, and [[Richard Yuill|raids]]/unwarranted investigations [[David Sonenschein|at any time]]. | |||
For example, MAPs who have chosen to be completely open about their identity and beliefs have faced threats to their life, having to erect physical defenses outside their properties and [[Essay:The_Gruesome_Consequences_of_a_Hysterical_Witch_Hunt|flee the prosecutorial systems]] of even formerly tolerant countries such as The Netherlands. | |||
A genuine holocaust is an obvious aspiration of some present-day [[Vigilantism|vigilantes]] and extremists. | |||
===MAPs in The Holocaust=== | |||
It is also worth mentioning, that MAPs were doubtless, victims of the Nazis - who used specific terms, referring to pederasts as ''corrupters and destroyers'' of youth.<ref>[https://shockoe.substack.com/p/jugendverfuhrer-jugendverderber Groomer & Jugendverführer/verderber]</ref> Some researchers claim these pederasts were subjected to experimental brain surgeries, even in post war Germany.<ref>[https://www.transcript-verlag.de/978-3-8376-5577-3/paedophilie/ Pädophilie. Eine Diskursgeschichte]</ref> | |||
<blockquote>''Research conducted by John Fout, a historian at Bard College, suggests that the Nazis did not target homosexuals per se for the death camps. The Nazis targeted mainly two kinds of homosexuals: working-class men caught having public sex, and men of any class caught in relationships with minors. The latter would often be sent to concentration camps after completing their prison sentences.''<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20140109235532/http://archive.guidemag.com/magcontent/invokemagcontent.cfm?ID=064C63A6-125A-11D4-A7AB00A0C9D84F02 Guide Mag - Andriette]</ref></blockquote> | |||
Based on 250 available records from Nazi concentration camps, approximately 10% of the people wearing the pink triangle were people convicted under paragraph 174 or 176, which designated pedophilia (sex with an individual below 14) <ref>[http://pink-triangle.org Paragraph 175 and other sexual deviance laws]</ref>, while 76% were convicted for homosexual acts with people over or under 21<ref>[https://sci-hub.ru/10.1300/J082v06n01_13 The Pink Triangle]</ref>. There are likely many instances of pederasty baked into the 76% of people convicted under paragraph 175, but it's not possible to assume anything more without additional data. | |||
==See also== | ==See also== | ||
Latest revision as of 12:59, 12 March 2023
There are numerous analogies with present day reality that may be of relevance to MAPs and allies. Using these parallels considerately in a debate can be turned to your advantage.
- Witch hunting. The literature, suspicion, and show trials surrounding witch hunts were all very similar to the process of obtaining legal closure for unlawful sex with minors. Guilt is assumed from the beginning, hearsay is enough to convict, and reasoned explanations are ignored.
- Homosexuality. Both are seen as aberrant as opposed to adaptive, owing to an oversimplification of evolutionary theory and hangover from religious assumptions about wasteful indulgence. Both have been described as unnatural and treated with behavioral and aversion therapies. Crude experimental sciences such as phallometry are deployed, once the deviant has entered the criminal system. Both of these tendencies have at points been presented as predatory and corrupting, with little analysis of motives or objective reality. Homosexuality was first presented by scientists as gender "inversion", while pedophilia (defined as a paraphilia in the same era by German psychiatrists) is still often presented as chronological inversion/regression.
Be prepared to face accusations of "falsely equating" attraction to minors with homosexuality if you use the gay analogy, and use a nativist, counter-invalidation, counter-agency argument if required.
- Onanism/Masturbation. Masturbation dogma is similar to CSA, and indeed a predecessor - since masturbation was defined as self-abuse and led to shame and aversion in children. Both are moral hysterias that developed into scientific discourses. CSA, while it was preceded by white slavery and child molester panics in the Victorian and postwar eras respectively, was reified in the 1970s/80s by moral entrepreneurs and Feminist theory. Present academics have compared the previous pathologization of self-gratifying sexual behavior in children with conceptions of present day "sexualized" children who court "bad touch" - even seeking pleasure with other children or adults.
MAPs and The Holocaust
A Holocaust comparison can be dismissed at this point, however MAPs and adjacent academics often live like pre-holocaust middle-class Jews in Germany - i.e. second-class citizens who must hide themselves or else face threats to their life, and raids/unwarranted investigations at any time.
For example, MAPs who have chosen to be completely open about their identity and beliefs have faced threats to their life, having to erect physical defenses outside their properties and flee the prosecutorial systems of even formerly tolerant countries such as The Netherlands.
A genuine holocaust is an obvious aspiration of some present-day vigilantes and extremists.
MAPs in The Holocaust
It is also worth mentioning, that MAPs were doubtless, victims of the Nazis - who used specific terms, referring to pederasts as corrupters and destroyers of youth.[1] Some researchers claim these pederasts were subjected to experimental brain surgeries, even in post war Germany.[2]
Research conducted by John Fout, a historian at Bard College, suggests that the Nazis did not target homosexuals per se for the death camps. The Nazis targeted mainly two kinds of homosexuals: working-class men caught having public sex, and men of any class caught in relationships with minors. The latter would often be sent to concentration camps after completing their prison sentences.[3]
Based on 250 available records from Nazi concentration camps, approximately 10% of the people wearing the pink triangle were people convicted under paragraph 174 or 176, which designated pedophilia (sex with an individual below 14) [4], while 76% were convicted for homosexual acts with people over or under 21[5]. There are likely many instances of pederasty baked into the 76% of people convicted under paragraph 175, but it's not possible to assume anything more without additional data.
See also
- Masturbation - Similar hysteria.
External Links
- Wikipedia - Witch-hunt.
- Wikipedia - History of Masturbation.
- Onanism and CSA - Agustin Malon.