Wikipedia censorship of MAP related topics
Even though the online encyclopedia Wikipedia (founded in January 2001 by current head Jimmy Wales and former head Larry Sanger) still claims to be neutral and "consensus driven", material is frequently deleted at the behest of Wales and select administrators (Arbitration Committee) when it is deemed to be politically unfavorable or harmful to its image. This flouting of principles, which has also been denounced by Sanger himself, who stated in 2020 that Wikipedia had by then become "badly biased" and completely abandoned its original neutrality policy, is particularly obvious in relation to articles on the subjects of child and youth sexuality and paraphilias. Because of this, most Wikipedia articles that focus on Minor Attracted People and Adult-child sex for example, tend to have a medical/psychiatric bias, expressed thru a combination of undue weight, advocacy science and weasel words.
While much of the material now removed from Wikipedia appears to be legitimate, sourced content from a neutral or contrarian perspective, previous bans on a small number self-identifying pedophile editors (in late 2006 and early 2007) exacerbated perceptions of any editing that may be considered similar in style. Users who "may bring the project into disrepute" were blocked "per directive" by the arbitration committee - a select group of site administrators who converse in private. In 2010, a policy was enacted to formalize ostracism of "pedophiles" and their apologists with no reference to children, and advice for administrators to cover-up accusations of "pedophilia" and pro-pedophile edit patterns. This policy was later rationalized as a child-protection effort, despite having never taken such a form.
In practise, it is common for anti-pedophile administrators to simply block editors who they dislike (or deem to be pedophiles), with the full knowledge that ArbCom will not oppose their actions. For example, the Administrator seicer re-affirmed an appealed block on 12 February 2009 by simply stating that he did not like the editor involved. This is not exceptional behavior among Wikimedia administrators, even to this day.
Timeline of events
- We refer to some editors as MAPs or MAP aligned for clarity. Please note that this term was not even coined or widely used until 2007 and 2018 respectively.
The censorship of MAP-related information from Wikipedia has a long history, which can be broken down into roughly three distinct eras. For the first part of its life, from 2001 to the "Pedo Wars" of the late 00s, Wikipedia took a pragmatic approach to editors who self-identified as MAPs, displayed sympathies, or shared content that might be deemed child pornography. At this point, the publicity risks were considerably lower, and the need for a growing base of quality content was first priority. This was the era before organized 2nd-wave MAP activism, so examples of dissent were limited to productive editors who had made controversial statements.
The first MAP activists to edit Wikipedia (2004 onward) didn't attempt to hide the fact. Users such as Rookiee (the host of Pedologues), Zanthalon (AP) and Clayboy were blocked because of the publicity risk they posed to the project. One controversy involved a "userbox/template" which identified an editor as a Pedophile on their user page - leading to arguments among Wikipedians over freedom of speech and the temporary banning of admins who opposed the template. This would be considered a near-impossibility nowadays. The crucial period of this 2nd era, started with an uptick in the level of anonymous editing in 2007. This was a period in which numerous edit wars raged, information was removed due to the perceived motivation or bad faith of editors, and the associated publicity risks. This was the "witch hunt" we refer to as the "Pedo Wars", and our narrative of that period continues after the short commentary below.
Wikipedia's inherent weakness
One inherent weakness of collaborative online information resources such as Wikipedia is their vulnerability to special interest groups and their lobbying efforts. On average, it is likely that moderate editors (those with no partisan leanings), will have less natural interest in a subject, less knowledge on it, and are less likely to care about saving their edits from hostile actors. This rule applies particularly to hot-button topics, meaning unlikely consensus has to be found on emotive, polarizing topics such as CSA. Negative bias can also creep in to some articles such as "Pro-pedophile activism", since any perception of "objectivity" towards topics that elicit visceral reactions might lead to self-censorship. At the time pro-MAP activists first appeared on Wikipedia, there was a politically-correct, "victimological", psychiatry-led bias throughout most of the "Pedophilia Article Watch" suite of articles. This was due to a general unwillingness of specialist editors to cite a range of sources, particularly outside of medicine. There was also a marked naivety among high-ranking non-specialist editors, towards lobbyist imposters posing as CSA specialists - usually to pedal grifts such as repressed memory.
It was at this time, around late 2006/early 2007, that pro-MAP activists responded to the previous blocks en-masse by creating anonymous accounts and attempting to alter editorial consensus. Favored edits introduced citations refuting the pathological theory of Pedophilia, and cited examples of CSA research contesting the narrative of universal harm (material such as Rind et al). This sparked a number of edit-wars and confrontations, attracting both administrators and anti-pedophile activists to the articles and their discussion pages. At this point, some high level Wikipedians personally contacted some of the more influential activist editors, attempting to explain the publicity risks of rampant, polarized special interest editing. This was of course a just warning, albeit against exactly the type of editing Wikipedia had tolerated for many years from victimological, therapeutic-interventionist and traumatology-led editors posing as disinterested specialists. It was for this reason, the appeals fell on deaf ears. The reaction that followed, towards "inclusionist" pro-MAP editing patterns - was sometimes indiscriminate, leading to arbitrary accusations of sockpuppetry and "pro-pedophile disruption" - an often stated rationale for blocking. As this "witch-hunt" reaction snowballed, accounts were often blocked regardless of activist affiliation, for editing patterns no more outlandish than citations of peer-reviewed research on related articles. It is also believed that highly abusive (i.e. "simultaneous") sock-puppetry was used on multiple occasions by anti-MAP activists in order to skirt around the "three revert rule" and to fabricate editor consensus. Many pro-MAP activists fought on, creating new identities after their initial bans - some getting through 10 or more identities before giving up. According to one editor, it was a running joke to compare the number of edits they got to before being banned, with 150 the marque of a skillful activist editor. In one particularly egregious incident, Administrator Dominic Byrd-McDevitt claimed that he had forensic evidence to link two accounts and justify a block by east718. We knew immediately, this was incorrect (see Louisa Petit-Ladoumegue in the list below), as both users were on our list of activists, but had never met one another. If McDevitt did indeed fabricate this evidence, we also know he lied to other sysops to cover himself.
Richard Weiss controversy
The pinnacle of the Pedo-Wars controversy and a major turning point, was the politically-influenced decision to retain the services of the British-born, renowned anti-pedophile edit warrior, Richard Weiss (Squeakbox) and his sockpuppets. This remains to this day, one of the all-time most blatant abuses of administrative privilege on the encyclopedia - if it is to be held that Jimbo Wales was not behind the decision.
Through various suspected sock puppet reports, it was established that accounts were being used throughout Pedophilia Article Watch to fabricate consensus and escape the three-revert-rule. These edits, particularly by the account Pol64, always reverted to the initial edits of Weiss, an avowed fighter of "pedophile disruption" known for previous sock puppetry and attempts to silence other editors by labeling them pedophiles. Interestingly, these edits also contained grammatical/typographical errors that uncannily resembled those made by Weiss. It was noted by investigating editors, that Pol64 would typically compile a list of edits that appended perfectly on to the end of Weiss' earlier session, and vice versa. These concerns were initially ignored due to Weiss' use of geographically unrelated proxy IPs to evade detection. This inspired the user Dyskolos (Daniel Lievre) to compile an exhaustive list of timed edit sessions, effectively proving that Richard Weiss was regularly and frantically switching between his main account and Pol64. Indeed, as the detailed list revealed, Weiss was barely leaving enough time between these puppeteering vacations to afford himself a simple tea break. The report, was nevertheless dismissed out of hand, confirming that Wikipedia would now not be willing to punish even the most obvious examples of abuse, if it were deemed to be countering the "pedophile point of view". One editor familiar with these exchanges recalls seeing at least one admin's comments expressing skepticism towards Weiss' activities being "rolled back", strongly suggesting the involvement of oversight from ArbCom or above.
It is a comic irony, that in a belated 2010 investigation into pedophile-related editing activity on Wikipedia, Fox News implied that Weiss (Squeakbox) had posted on BoyChat soliciting votes against the deletion of Marthijn Uittenbogaard's article. Of course, a BoyChat user had ironically used Weiss' screen name to troll him on BC, and prevent his own Wikipedian identity from being revealed.
2008: Adult-Child Sex - the last stand
Having effectively lost the war over editing privileges, there was one last significant attempt by MAP-aligned or amenable Wikipedians to incorporate value-neutral information on CSA. This was the Adult-child sex article - the concept being to create a new article as opposed to altering an existing one. Amazingly, this article (which we took over, and edit to this day) survived one deletion vote handsomely, and hung on for a few months until new anti-MAP activist editors appeared to be called in to the vote. Editors on, or roughly aligned to our activist network continued to be active all the way through 2008, but were eventually swamped by further blocks, article protections and the appearance of special interest editors such as James Cantor.
A return to the old normal
The Pedophilia Article Watch is now inactive after the cessation of MAP activist editing, and MAPs are frequently warned against editing Wikipedia without taking precautions such as computer security and checking their edit pattern. The events of 2007 are frequently used as a precedent to suppress "tendentious" editing, and most articles are now policed and sanitized as a matter of course. One positive outcome, is that due in part to the events of 2007, regular Wikipedia editors are now far more aware of the special interest editing patterns that led to the poisoning of many psychology, psychiatry and sexology related topics in the preceding era. In this sense, we are now able to link to a number of less contentious Wikipedia articles that are unlikely to fall foul of advocacy editing, and thus reduced the burden on our own content producers.
List of notable editors
All of the following editors were involved in the 2007/8 controversy. Some notables from <2006 and 2009> have been excluded.
Editors with the black dot are known to have been sockpuppets.
- Richard Weiss☻ - (at the time, his screen name was SqueakBox). Multiple abusive simultaneous sock puppeteer with his own section in this article. His sock, Pol64☻ was allegedly a female former police officer - eventually banned in early 2008, but astoundingly, never officially linked to Weiss.
- AbuseTruth☻ aka ResearchEditor☻ (3000 edits, special interest, multiple socks, Leadership Council?)
- AWeidman☻ aka DPeterson☻ (Dr Arthur Becker Weidman, Anti-ped Attachment Therapist who eventually got a lifetime block in 07 for ban evasion. Associated with Phillip John Eide on wiki)
- East718, El_C (Pedophobic Admins)
- Jack-A-Roe (Highly tendentious special interest editor and Civil POV pusher)
- Fred Bauder (Admin who was hugely influential in policing pedophilia and enacting blocks)
- PetraSchelm (Typical Jack/PhDarts style victimological agenda-pusher, possible $$ grift)
- Phdarts☻ aka HeadleyDown☻ (Similar to the above, one was reincarnation of the other)
- SeattleJoe (vile character who started threatening editors with police action, for editing)
- Will Beback (William McWhinney, disingenuous admin who supported harsh and excessive permanent blocks of other editors, while expressing no corresponding objection to them in normal editing)
- XavierVE (Phillip John Eide) - of Perverted Justice.
All of these editors were banned, and got only limited support from established Wikipedians such as Springeragh and Homologeo. Editors with the black dot are known to have been sockpuppets, although some are not linked explicitly for their security. The usual form of sockpuppetry was creation of a new account after banning. Simultaneous abuse was rare among this group. Wikisposure did their own research at the time, and got some of it right.
- VigilancePrime (Disgraceful block of a productive editor)
- Barry Jameson☻ (171 edits)
- Catherine N.X. (Activist who helped the logic section of our Debate Guide)
- BLueRibbon☻ (BL Activist, one of our contributors early on)
- Silent War
- Digital Emotion☻ (123 edits - profiled on Wikisposure)
- Enrico Dirac☻ aka Hermitian☻ (Often seen, likely connected accounts, reasonable editing style)
- GroomingVictim☻ (176 Edits)
- Jillium☻ (our former Web Admin/Producer of research lists) ran Tryckfelsnisse☻ and Paroxysm☻.
- Jim Burton☻ (Highly successful MAP-aligned editor, almost 1000 edits, defended right of editors to self-identify as pedophiles, and described them as ideal editors of articles related to themselves on a provocative userpage)
- Karla Lindstrom☻ (46 edits) was a sock of Dyskolos☻ and Samantha Pignez☻ (Daniel Lievre☻ - our cofounder who had operated over 10 accounts by 2008 and ran a private email list).
- Louisa Petit-Ladoumegue☻ (This alleged sock puppet of Voice of Britain☻ was actually Samantha Pignez/Lievre instead. We know both individuals who operated these accounts! Administrative abuse by East718. This is where they were caught lying)
- Voice of Britain☻
- Jovin Lambton☻ (Almost 1000 edits)
- Roman Czyborra (Czyborra.com - a Unix Administrator from Berlin, Germany, who threatened to sue Wikimedia)
- Strichmann☻ (66 edits and sources provided for Adult-child sex in co-operation with the below, which seemingly outraged Admins)
- TlatoSMD (High quality editor with 2000+ edits - sparred with Jack-A-Roe, calling him out as a pusher. Banned incorrectly as "single purpose")
- Foresticpig☻ (over 1000)
- Tyciol (edits here)
- MikeD78☻ (around 500 edits)
- Bow Ty☻
What does this all mean?
From looking at logs and known/likely socks and reincarnation of banned editors, it looks like each side had between 3 and 4 highly biased activist editors on PAW at any one time, through most of 2007 and part of 2008. These editors would contribute roughly half of the counting edits during that time.
Pedo Wars II (2023 MAP article controversy)
A second much shorter, but more damaging controversy took place in mid-May, 2023, when administrators on the popular online encyclopedia were seen to have conducted a witch-hunt on two researchers and the former head of a child protection charity deemed to be engaged in "pedophile advocacy".
These events took place around a "deletion discussion" for a controversial, newly-created article describing the term "Minor Attracted Person". Initially, numerous editors chimed in, supporting the idea of keeping the article. With high-ranking editors and admins rattled, a series of bizarre events then unfolded. A brand new editor going by the name of "MrPinkingShears" randomly accused one of the MAP research editors of "personally knowing" Thomas O'Carroll, simply because he had described him as "Tom" in an edit summary. MrPinkingShears was subsequently banned, but then reinstated after other administrators revolted, and the two MAP researchers were banned.
Other articles written by one of the researchers (including a review of Predator Poachers - a discredited vigilante operation) were deleted, as canvassing at Wikipediocracy and most probably the Wikipedia Review forum was followed by a campaign of paranoia, hyper-vigilance, arbitration-committee-enforced bans and a chilling effect. Another article that was significantly effected by the bans was Operation Underground Railroad. Editors removed large amounts of sourced material deemed to be potentially compromising to this Conservative Mormon missionary organization known (much like Predator Poachers) for conducting stings using real minors.
Another article that was deleted and redirected with little warning or explanation referred exclusively to the "Primary Prevention of Child Sexual Abuse", but in an unusual example of guilt-by-association, was supposedly deemed far-too inappropriate, as it was written principally by one of the banned editors. Allyn Walker's article was also cut significantly, following the bans and was deleted. Wikipedia's treatment of Chronophilia was cut to under half its size following the ban of 22Spears.
The Minor-attracted person article was reworded to suit the agenda of remaining editors. It was nevertheless deleted following the protracted discussion and silencing of editors who wanted to keep it in its original, neutral format. Jeremy Malcolm went on to criticize the application of Wikipedia's child protection policies in a blog. Prostasia also addressed a letter to the Wikimedia Foundation, signed and submitted by their new head, Gilian Tenbergen.
Detailing the 2023 controversy, these screengrabs present a chronology of those events, and document how anti-MAP extremism has become weaponized within Wikipedia's internal culture of bureaucracy and lawyering.
The controversy was initiated by Red-tailed hawk's blanking and redirection of the MAP article
Another editor repeats the above trick, after next-to-no constructive efforts to add to the article
Initial rash of "keep" opinions. Notice strike-throughs, signifying the "chilling effect" of anti-pedophile consensus, and deliberate tagging of editors signatures by other editors
86Sedan debate interjection and defense of suspicious editor voting "Keep"
A user contests the potential reinstatement of accused propagandist 22Spears on the basis of his creepy interest in ancient Greek history, which by extension must mean faggotry
This is normal... A delete editor enlightens us that it's probably best to ignore all rules, then disappears
Confirmed: Wikipedia just blocked the most hopelessly milquetoast personality ever connected to "Minor Attracted People", for the timelessly obscure "pedophile advocacy"
The inquisition begins for the administrator who had the temerity to block an account for harassment! And yes, this did blow out into a full struggle-session, complete with forced confession.
Part of the deletion discussion for "Stigma of pedophilia". Move along now...
Summary and commentaries
In addition to the above-mentioned reactions of Jeremy Malcolm and Prostasia, some extended critiques have been written concerning the 2023 addendum to the controversy, for example, on BC.
The incompetence and unethical behavior of Wikimedia's Administration, and Arbitration Committee on topics related to CSA, Pedophilia and attraction to minors can be summarized in roughly 5 points, all sourced elsewhere in this article:
- The initial failure of Wikipedia from its inception to 2006/7/8 to detect and suppress blatant special-interest editing on topics in relation to Psychiatry, Memory, Dissociation, Pedophilia and Sexology in general, resulting in highly biased treatments and an incursion of avowed pedophile edit warriors who would then later respawn as sock accounts.
- Various highly-questionable, unethical, likely Arbitration committee enforced decisions - namely the use of false forensics to publicly link two geographically unrelated users engaged in inconvenient editing, initial failure to link the sock puppet accounts of serial harasser, Richard Weiss, and subsequent refusal to acknowledge the long-proven link upon the sock account's banning.
- The subsequent creation in 2010 of a policy on "Child Protection" that in fact started as a poorly-worded essay detailing Wikipedia's erstwhile unofficial policy of banning self-describing "pedophiles" because of the publicity risk they posed.
- Failure in the 10s to uniformly address misuse of the term "pedophile", for example on the pages of rapists and serial killers, followed by the initial Wiktionary block of 86Sedan by Surjection for "advocating illegal activity", when her single article edit did nothing remotely of the sort.
- Carrying out a witch-hunt on researchers and the former head of a child protection charity in 2023, following the publicly visible emergence of MAP identities and research in the previous five years, and introduction of notable, peer-reviewed research topics to Wikipedia. Complicity in encouraging what were multiple offsite attempts to obtain dox information on participants; repeatedly formally acting on said information and then systematically silencing the accused.
Commentary following initial actions in the 00s
We also reproduce some earlier criticism of Wikipedia's self-censorship mechanisms, in the wake of point 2 above. One anonymous Wikipedia Admin (via perma-banned ex-editor, Karla Lindstrom - probably a sock alias of Daniel Lievre):
I don't believe that Wikipedia is going to have a paedophile related article that is neutral in the proper sense of the word now or in the forseeable future. It appears to be an editorial decision that the subject matter is too sensitive, and the risk of appearing to condone (that is, not to condemn but appear impartial) the practice is one that the Foundation, Board, etc. are not prepared to take.
IP comment (probably former editor, Enrico Dirac):
It seems to me that characterizing criticism of the plethora of biased and misleading Wikipedia articles on sex and kids as "editors claiming adult/child sex is not harmful to children" just mirrors the tactics used by those pushing the CSA moral panic in regular society. Publish a paper debunking bogus numbers on the incidence of child porn and child abuse, propose a population-based peer-reviewed study which might produce an unpopular result, or suggest a change in the extremely value-laden terminology presently used in the CSA field, and no matter what your academic reputation, the usual Dr Lauras and Judith Reismans and "family values" organizations of the world will bombard the media with claims that "so-and-so says sexual abuse isn't harmful" and "so-and-so is pro-pedophile" and "so-and-so wants to legalize adult/child sex." This is always tremendously successful, and the resulting noise completely obscures any attempt to discuss the research on its merits.
Given that tremendously sucessful political strategies generally manage to get adopted in new venues, it's hardly a huge surprise that Wikipedia now has its own little cadre of True Believers, beating their little sex abuse drum, and running around shouting "pro-pedophile activism" every time they see something which violates the party line on the topic. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice that what currently passes for NPOV* in some of these articles reads like a press release from some conservative religious pressure group.
Sexual abuse is certainly a bad thing, but the type of hypervigilance that leads to sex abuse witch hunts like Wenatchee and the daycare scandals of the 1980's, which put scores of people in prison based on fabricated evidence, is also a bad thing.
I can't ever remember anyone getting banned from Wikipedia for turning a sex abuse article into a hateful pejorative-laden rant. But I've seen a lot of people banned after their edits annoyed the current Kiddie Sex Cabal that has arrogated to themselves the right to make sure that all such articles on Wikipedia contain the approved amount of anti-pedophile innuendo and vitriol. Some are banned with vague references to Pro-Pedophile POV, whatever that is. Others just disappear at the hands of Arbcom after secret proceedings. Entire articles which have been worked on by hundreds of editors, and which certainly represent community consensus, just arbitrarily disappear if someone high up decides they don't have enough anti-pedophile innuendo in them. This isn't an open and transparent process, where actions may be reviewed and commented upon. It is a fiat process in which talk pages get protected, and replaced by Wikipedia's version of what Wikipedia alleges transpired.
Now Wikipedia is a privately owned resource, with complete and total control over what it publishes. Oh, there's a lot of handwaving about consensus, and how it's actually run by the editors, and editorials making fun of anyone who suggests a Cabal exists. But in point of fact, Wikipedia has a certain political tone, and although anyone is free to contribute, it is a hierarchy of plebian editors, admins, Arbcom members, with Jimbo Wales at the top, and each level learns what the level above it wants, and exerts veto power over the levels below it.
NPOV is in reality the official Wikipedia POV, and the official Wikipedia POV on Child Sexual Abuse is fully supportive of the current hysteria and moral panic, and cares not a whit about what the actual facts are, and will always favor innacurate "mainstream perspective" over the truth. Wikiality and Truthiness aren't just amusing words on late night TV. They are an accurate description of what is produced by the Wikipedia process
*The term "NPOV" (Neutral Point Of View) refers to a Wikipedia policy whereby encyclopaedia content must be nonpartisan, even in relation to moderate or centrist points of view.
- Role Of Jimmy Wales - Wikipedia documentation
- Wikipedia is badly biased. Personal website of Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger. May 14, 2020.
- See for example, archives of pages removed from under the auspices of Pedophile Article Watch
- Discussion of blocking as per directive of ArbCom
- VigilancePrime UserTalk log
- Wikipedia's Child Protection Policy started not as a well thought-out trust-and-safety exercise, but as the formalization of an extant witch-hunt against "advocates" of "pedophilia"
- Surjection perma-banned LegitSock 86Sedan for factual edits that did no more than make two longstanding controversial articles consistent with one another, accusing "advocacy of illegal activity".
- Wikipedia Distributing Child Porn, Co-Founder Tells FBI
- Infogalactic: Wikipedia and Pedophilia
- Goode - It would be useful to have the later pages of this, see what she went into
- Pedo userbox war
- Squeakbox (Weiss) request for checkuser
- SqueakBox (Weiss) suspected sock puppet log
- FOX News: Pedophiles find a home on Wikipedia
- Adult-child sex 1st deletion vote
- Adult-child sex 2nd deletion vote
- Adult-child sex deletion review
- Pol64 Blocked, Weiss continues to support his own sockpuppet
- ED: Wikipedia Campaign (originally a Wikisposure article)
- User Talk: Louisa_Petit-Ladoumegue
- Nathan Larson on Wikipedia
- The banned editors went by the usernames 22Spears, 86Sedan (apparently researchers), and Jeremy Malcolm (User:Qirtaiba). Observer42436 (a one-time use account) and R alvarez02 were blocked immediately for supporting one of the researchers and Malcolm in a deletion discussion. User:Pokelova was threatened with a ban for openly supporting the first two of these editors, as can be seen in the gallery, but escaped unscathed before going on to lose his account after an editor complained of him being a hebephilic furry with a baraag.net Pediverse account [see the Wikipediocracy thread]. Another editor banned was Allyn Walker article contributor, So47009 (see AN/I discussion)
- 22Spears talk page with block and appeals
- 86sedan talk page with block and appeal
- Jeremy Malcolm talk page, ban and appeals
- AfD: Deletion discussion for "Minor-attracted person", not to be confused with a previous AfD for Minor-attracted person, in which the article took the form of a disambiguation page
- MAP Article - Archive
- Wikipediocracy thread, see also Wikipediasucks
- Stigma of Pedophilia (archive) and AfD: Stigma of Pedophilia
- AfD: Predator Poachers
- Primary Prevention of CSA (old version), Primary Prevention of CSA (archive) and redirect
- Archive of Allyn Walker's article as-was, Diff showing removal of material from Allyn Walker's lengthly article
- Sanitized version of the MAP article, after it was "taken over" by two non-banned weak-keep editors who wanted to tackle the topic from an almost exclusively critical angle
- Jeremy Malcolm Blog
- Prostasia - letter on Wikimedia CSE Policy
- Jeremy Malcolm identified the presence of self-describing untrained "pedophile hunters" in high-ranking positions at Wikipedia, orchestrating their efforts via offsite forums
- Bbb23's struggle session
- BC - Talix criticism of 2023 Wiki cabal censorship efforts
- IP comment from Enrico Dirac