Debate Guide: Problems with the Age of Consent: Difference between revisions

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Here, you will find a list of basic philosophical and practical problems with the [[Age of Consent]] laws. It:
[[File:Criminalresponsibility.png|thumb|When juveniles are deemed criminally responsible, it becomes "reasonable" to punish them for voluntary sex with other minors who are not responsible]]Here, you will find a list of basic philosophical and practical problems with the [[Age of Consent]] laws.*
#is '''arbitrary'''.
 
#*In the absence of '[[Romeo and Juliet]]' laws, the age of consent is an 'all or nothing' law, regarding whether a crime has been committed. Although courts do take into account the nature of a relationship, in sentencing, the crazy example of two partners either side of their birthday (also the age of consent) will always haunt such a law. The law is quite unlike most others concerning the ethics of personal conduct in that it draws a line in the sand, and does not garner information from the ''qualities'' of what should be very complex for an outsider to fully understand.
'''1. Arbitrary''':
#*The AoC is absolutism in practice. The worst cultures and religions have thought in absolutes.
:In the absence of '[[Romeo and Juliet]]' laws, the age of consent is an 'all or nothing' absolutist law, regarding whether a crime has been committed. Although courts do take into account the nature of a relationship in sentencing, there is always the possibility of two partners either side of the statutory age falling foul of the law. The law is quite unlike most others concerning the ethics of personal conduct in that it draws a line in the sand, and does not lend itself well to learning from the ''qualities'' of a relationship, i.e. lived experience.  
#'''varies''' across cultures.
 
#*A quick look through an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#Listed_by_region ages of consent] list will show that even the US states are completely disagreed on what is appropriate. The AoC varies so widely across the world (7 - 21), that some of the harm that you predict must be happening legally. Yet do we hear more complaints coming from countries with low AoCs? Are 'ills' such as teenage pregnancy not lower in countries such as the Netherlands (when the AoC was 12)? Have campaigns to increase AoCs, such as in Canada (14 - 16) really been anything but ''morally'' reasoned?
:''See also - [[Debate Guide: Legal pragmatism]].''
#is '''ignored''' by far too many '''[[young people]]'''.
 
#*Although if anything, like psychoactives, its a boundary to be smashed if those who break it actually know what it is! Regarding youth - youth sex, all the AoC does is to persecute something that is standard and almost unstoppable. Among the varied AoCs, the age of consent seems to have little correlation to one's age of first penetrative sex. Compare [http://www.durex.com/cm/gss2005Content.asp?intQid=941&intMenuOpen= these] figures for the latter age with the age of consent list, and you will find that if anything, the countries at the extreme ends of the age of first sex scale have AoCs which reflect their society's acceptance of young sex. The pattern is varied, though. Refer to Spain at 17.5 (AoC 13) and Italy at 18.1 (AoC 14) and compare to the USA at 16.9, where the AoC is often 18. Many people have non penetrative experiences at much younger ages than the "virginity" loss ages (and the ages of consent), and this brings in a fourth criticism: the law goes against instinct, even reproductive abilities.
'''2. Varies too much across cultures to be taken seriously''':
#is '''not required''' as it '''drives children into the hands of abusers''' and '''does not combat rape'''.
 
#*Since physical abuse can be a punishable crime regardless of the age of consent, all the absence of such a law can do is give partakers a choice in deciding what equals abuse in the context of their relationship. Harmful abuse (physical coercion and illegitimately obtained consent) continues regardless of how hopelessly high the AoC is, and remains against the law even in the absence of a limit.
:A quick look through an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#Listed_by_region ages of consent] list reveals that even the US states are far from agreed upon what is appropriate. The AoC varies so widely across the world (11 - 21, until recently as low as 7), that some of the harm said to befall minors in [[Child Sexual Abuse]] is supposedly occurring free from legal repercussions. Has there been any research done into psychological repercussions in these countries? If not, why? Compare [[Research: Teen pregnancy|teenage pregnancy]] rates from the Netherlands (when the AoC was set at 12) to other countries at the same time.
#*Without an age of consent, sex taboo, witch hunt and the harsh punishments it supports - less of these relationships would be hidden, meaning that any abuse would be more visible, easier to speak out about and less inductive to blackmail, gagging and at the extreme end, murder by abusers. If law pinpointed exactly what was unacceptable to those involved, instead of performing a simplifying broad sweep, society as a whole could become aware of what constitutes abuse (i.e. coercion / harm, on the complaint of a victim or observer), and the courts could consider what went on by considering a healthy, diverse number of questions rather than the one main 'yes or no'. Finally, minors would be allowed to have relationships with the responsible, law-abiding adults that must turn them down under prohibition. With the laws, they are driven into the hands of careless sexual partners who have no respect for the law.
 
'''3. It is frequently ignored''' by far too many [[Minor|young people]] to make sense maintaining:
 
:Like prohibited psychoactive drugs, the Age of Consent is a boundary to be broken between young people. National AoCs, appear to have little correlation with the average ages of first penetrative sex around the world. Compare the Durex Survey figures<ref>[https://www.durexnetwork.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/Research%20-%20Face%20Of%20Global%20Sex%202005.pdf Durex Survey - Page 30]</ref> for the latter age with the age of consent list, and you will find that if anything, the countries at the extreme ends of the age of first sex scale have AoCs which reflect their society's acceptance of young sex. The pattern is varied, though. Refer to Spain at 17.5 (AoC was 13 at the time) and Italy at 18.1 (AoC 14) and compare to the USA at 16.9, where the AoC is often 18. Many people have non penetrative experiences at much younger ages than the "virginity" loss ages (and the ages of consent). With ages of puberty still falling and ages of consent rising, the "frustration zone" increases in size, increasing the chances of irresponsible sex among the young.
 
'''4. Does not achieve it's objectives''', because it '''drives youth into the hands of criminals and abusers''' and does not prevent rape:
 
:Since physical abuse can be a punishable crime regardless of the age of consent, all the absence of such a law can do is give participants a choice in deciding what equals abuse in the context of their relationship. Harmful abuse (physical coercion and illegitimately obtained consent) continues in countries with a high AoC is, and remains against the law in countries with a low age.
 
:A more liberal, less stigmatizing and punitive legal system would mean that less of these relationships would be hidden, making abuse more conspicuous and easier to speak out about. There would be less of an incentive for blackmail, intimidation and physical mistreatment, if legitimate minor-adult relations were legal. Society as a whole needs to become more aware of what constitutes abuse (i.e. coercion / harm, on the complaint of a victim or observer), and what constitutes a healthy relationship. Finally, minors would be permitted relations with more responsible and law-abiding adults, who by default will not seek such relationships under prohibition.
 
==Excerpt gallery==
 
Various theoretical objections to the broader concept of informed [[consent]] as applied to sex.
 
{{Template:EGLConsent}}
 
<nowiki>*</nowiki><small>Please note, that in our [[Ethos of Newgon|ethos]], we have a policy of supporting an elective [[consent]]ing age as low as 12.</small>
 
==References==


[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Adults]][[Category:Debating Points: Child/Minor]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]]
[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Adults]][[Category:Debating Points: Child/Minor]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]]
[[fr:Guide de débat: Problèmes avec l'âge de consentement]]
[[fr:Guide de débat: Problèmes avec l'âge de consentement]]

Latest revision as of 19:16, 11 April 2024

When juveniles are deemed criminally responsible, it becomes "reasonable" to punish them for voluntary sex with other minors who are not responsible

Here, you will find a list of basic philosophical and practical problems with the Age of Consent laws.*

1. Arbitrary:

In the absence of 'Romeo and Juliet' laws, the age of consent is an 'all or nothing' absolutist law, regarding whether a crime has been committed. Although courts do take into account the nature of a relationship in sentencing, there is always the possibility of two partners either side of the statutory age falling foul of the law. The law is quite unlike most others concerning the ethics of personal conduct in that it draws a line in the sand, and does not lend itself well to learning from the qualities of a relationship, i.e. lived experience.
See also - Debate Guide: Legal pragmatism.

2. Varies too much across cultures to be taken seriously:

A quick look through an ages of consent list reveals that even the US states are far from agreed upon what is appropriate. The AoC varies so widely across the world (11 - 21, until recently as low as 7), that some of the harm said to befall minors in Child Sexual Abuse is supposedly occurring free from legal repercussions. Has there been any research done into psychological repercussions in these countries? If not, why? Compare teenage pregnancy rates from the Netherlands (when the AoC was set at 12) to other countries at the same time.

3. It is frequently ignored by far too many young people to make sense maintaining:

Like prohibited psychoactive drugs, the Age of Consent is a boundary to be broken between young people. National AoCs, appear to have little correlation with the average ages of first penetrative sex around the world. Compare the Durex Survey figures[1] for the latter age with the age of consent list, and you will find that if anything, the countries at the extreme ends of the age of first sex scale have AoCs which reflect their society's acceptance of young sex. The pattern is varied, though. Refer to Spain at 17.5 (AoC was 13 at the time) and Italy at 18.1 (AoC 14) and compare to the USA at 16.9, where the AoC is often 18. Many people have non penetrative experiences at much younger ages than the "virginity" loss ages (and the ages of consent). With ages of puberty still falling and ages of consent rising, the "frustration zone" increases in size, increasing the chances of irresponsible sex among the young.

4. Does not achieve it's objectives, because it drives youth into the hands of criminals and abusers and does not prevent rape:

Since physical abuse can be a punishable crime regardless of the age of consent, all the absence of such a law can do is give participants a choice in deciding what equals abuse in the context of their relationship. Harmful abuse (physical coercion and illegitimately obtained consent) continues in countries with a high AoC is, and remains against the law in countries with a low age.
A more liberal, less stigmatizing and punitive legal system would mean that less of these relationships would be hidden, making abuse more conspicuous and easier to speak out about. There would be less of an incentive for blackmail, intimidation and physical mistreatment, if legitimate minor-adult relations were legal. Society as a whole needs to become more aware of what constitutes abuse (i.e. coercion / harm, on the complaint of a victim or observer), and what constitutes a healthy relationship. Finally, minors would be permitted relations with more responsible and law-abiding adults, who by default will not seek such relationships under prohibition.

Excerpt gallery

Various theoretical objections to the broader concept of informed consent as applied to sex.

*Please note, that in our ethos, we have a policy of supporting an elective consenting age as low as 12.

References