Debate Guide: Legal pragmatism: Difference between revisions

From NewgonWiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
No edit summary
No edit summary
Line 1: Line 1:
Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to a series of legal and technical arguments for keeping the [[Age of Consent]].
Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining [[Age of Consent]] laws above 16 or 18.


<blockquote><font color="green">'''''The AoC provides a firm line where one is needed; the public needs to know where they are. This also goes for the courts, since objective, simple legislation is technically superior to subjective interpretations. A few unfair convictions is no loss, when this law allows us to get the bad'uns.'''''</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="green">'''''A legal age provides a <u>fine line in the sand</u>, where society needs it. In court, objective, simple legislation cuts out the need for subjective interpretations. A few unsafe, or unfair convictions are no loss, when it allows us to show <u>zero tolerance to the predators</u>.'''''</font></blockquote>


A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:
A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:


*How '''common''' are these "bad" experiences really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would appear to suggest that the proponent's "exceptions to the rule" he is willing to sacrifice for the greater good (we assume he means female teachers who are caught with teenage boys) are deemed the only permissible "exceptions" because of his personal prejudices.
*How '''common''' are predatory relationships really? [[Research]] may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. For the proponent's argument to work, we would have to make a series of assumptions - for example, believing that student relationships with female teachers are the only potentially non-abusive exceptions. Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus can only be ''inefficiently'' judged by objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority.
*What '''meta-ethical''' system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]] would appear to contradict this argument, since it tolerates suffering for the "greater good".
*What ethical system are we using? [[Debate Guide: If we could only save one child|Negative utilitarianism]], applied in defense of consent laws, may appear to contradict our proponent's argument, as he is tolerating considerable suffering for a "greater good". Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harms caused]] by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is adequately reduced?
*What '''time scale''' are we talking of? "Legal-pragmatic" arguments might have some merit in times of [[Research: Sexual repression|sexual repression]] when experiences are likely to be looked upon with guilt. To avoid establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]], however, we would also have to pursue reform of attitudes so that guilt can be reduced, laws changed and personal choice embraced.
:*Further, are we not bringing about further harms, by establishing a [[Self-fulfilling prophecy|causal loop]] in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? [[Research]] appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.
*Can we '''afford''' to [[Special Article: Adverse effects of hysteria|harm]] individuals who have been caught by arbitrary laws that do not take into account the positive nature of their relationships?
*In light of the variable nature of adult-minor (and indeed any human) sexual relationships, is an '''objective test''' in fact the most efficient in court? Can abuse (regardless of age) be identified ''more efficiently'' with a subjective test that takes into account lived experience?


[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]
[[Category:Debate]][[Category:Debating Points: Sociological]][[Category:Debating Points: Adult-Minor sex]]

Revision as of 15:52, 3 April 2024

Here, so-called "legal pragmatism" refers to an argument that concedes the possibility of unjust convictions, but remains in favor of maintaining Age of Consent laws above 16 or 18.

A legal age provides a fine line in the sand, where society needs it. In court, objective, simple legislation cuts out the need for subjective interpretations. A few unsafe, or unfair convictions are no loss, when it allows us to show zero tolerance to the predators.

A number of issues come to mind, all having a bearing on the viability of this argument:

  • How common are predatory relationships really? Research may help us here, and would tend to suggest that we need a far more sensitive legal tool for separating abuse of minors from voluntary relations. For the proponent's argument to work, we would have to make a series of assumptions - for example, believing that student relationships with female teachers are the only potentially non-abusive exceptions. Ultimately, lived experience is subjective, and thus can only be inefficiently judged by objective legal criteria such as age and presumed authority.
  • What ethical system are we using? Negative utilitarianism, applied in defense of consent laws, may appear to contradict our proponent's argument, as he is tolerating considerable suffering for a "greater good". Under a negative utilitarian model, do the collateral harms caused by a broad-sweeping and punitive legal scheme have adequate offsets in that suffering among abuse victims is adequately reduced?
  • Further, are we not bringing about further harms, by establishing a causal loop in which puritanical attitudes bring about the same results puritanical laws seek to avoid? Research appears to suggest that self-perception, shame and stigma are very strongly associated with psychological harms.